Morocco and the Polisario determined to pursue Sahara talks
2008-08-05
Both Morocco and the Polisario Front have expressed their intention to continue negotiations on Western Sahara, though the latter wishes to do so without UN envoy Peter van Walsum as mediator.
By Naoufel Cherkaoui for Magharebia in Rabat – 05/08/08
 [Getty Images] "We are for negotiations with Morocco," the Polisario Front said last week, "but without [UN mediator Peter] van Walsum" (left). |
Despite a series of stalled talks in New York, Morocco remains committed to the process of negotiations with the Polisario, in pursuit of a lasting solution to the dispute over Western Sahara. That was the message conveyed by King Mohammed VI in a royal address last Wednesday (July 30th) in Fez.
"The relentless efforts of our bold diplomacy have resulted in substantial positive development," said the king. "This is evident in the UN resolution endorsing seriously and credibly our dauntless initiative for autonomy and the growing international support of the kingdom's right to have sovereignty over the desert, and the fact that separation is unrealistic."
Reasserting his country's commitment to UN Security Council resolution 1813, Mohammed VI said Morocco is willing "to engage in real negotiations, driven by good intentions... to arrive at a permanent political and reconciliatory solution for this conflict."
Abdelkader Taleb Oumar, a member of the Polisario Front's national secretariat, emphasised last Tuesday in Algeria that his group is committed to completing negotiations with Morocco, but without UN envoy Peter van Walsum.
"We are for negotiations with Morocco," Oumar said, "and the Polisario agreed to go into the fifth round… but without van Walsum, because he is a mediator who is visibly biased towards the Moroccan proposal."
Van Walsum came under fire from the Polisario and Algeria back in April, when he declared Sahrawi independence impossible within the current framework of negotiations.
Oumar said his organisation hopes to take action towards peace before the current MINURSO mandate expires in April 2009.
"Thirty-three years is enough to show the world that the Sahrawi people reject the Moroccan occupation and are committed to their right to self-determination," he continued, also making the claim that the occupation is detrimental to Morocco, as it stifles economic and political development due to the millions of dollars spent in maintaining the campaign.
Moroccan Foreign Minister Taieb Fassi Fihri said, "The movement has updated its reference and highlighted a political solution through negotiations, now possible thanks to Morocco's proposal of autonomy."
Michele Montas, spokesperson for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, asserted last Wednesday that the Polisario has not taken any official action with the UN requesting a replacement for van Walsum.
Van Walsum's position has not changed, Montas told reporters, and the UN intends to keep him in place in the coming stages. No date has been set, however, for the next round of negotiations.
Meanwhile, Omar Hilale, secretary-general of the Moroccan foreign ministry, told Indonesian newspaper Jakarta Post last Thursday that, in handling the Sahara case, Morocco seeks to follow the example set by Indonesia in signing a peace accord with the Aceh Free Movement, through which the group was granted extensive autonomy in 2005.
"We would grant the same thing to the Saharan people and the Polisario Front," he said.
Email to a friend
Print version
jalal nali Posted 2008-08-06
Morocco, as the unique real model to fallow, in human rights and economic fields, a wining policies in human development, is the first in the muslim countries (i will not say Arab countries because the majority of moroccans are Berbers)the he couragously proposed an autonomy solution to solve this artificail issue, and morocco should negociate directley next Manhast meeting with Algeria, and polisario can assist like an observer. some countries of the region are afraid, if morocco give the autonomy to his southern provinces, algeria should do the same in the Kabylian region, to stop the well hided civil war,the maghreb arabe sould be the maghreb of regions, under the same state control'kind of federalisme'
Moulay Rashid Posted 2008-08-06
The polisario are a fading force yet they seem to want to choose who the UN representatives should be?! The polisario are nothing but a relic of the cold war and many sahraoui people already know this which explains why so many sahraoui's wish to leave the concentration camps in Tindouf and return to Morocco but are forcibly prevented from doing so through the threat and actual use of physical violence. The sooner this rif-raf corrupt power hungry group commonly referred to as the polisario are dismantled the better for the whole Maghreb region. It's 2008 not 1978, pursuing balkanisation politics will only lead to further problems as we all witnessed during the Balkan wars.
Kabs Posted 2008-08-06
Banana Republic. I do not understand at all why these people want to make a banana republic of the Sahara. Let us analyse the facts and figures. You have a territory— the Sahara— representing half of the territory of Morocco, and you have the Polisario, which represents 200 thousand people at best. This means that less than 1% of the Moroccan population, which is currently at 32 million, what to secede. Be logical: 200 thousand people do not even add up to the city of Taza in Morocco. This is as if a small city or a big village in Morocco had decided to ask for its independence with a territory 100 times larger than it needs. With neighbours who respectively have 32 and 34 million inhabitants, we can see that this is Algeria’s doing: a small vassal is better than a strong Morocco. Everything seems clearer now. Now, in Mauritania, we have a concrete example of how creating little, unstable republics serves no purpose. The 21st Century is one of big blocs, not one of banana republics.
hicham_mogador Posted 2008-08-06
Salam alikum. The only thing that the mercenaries (Polisario) should do is to surrender to reality. Algeria doesn’t have power to bear its economic consequences (financial funding) and the political attitudes which have deepened the gap between it and Maghreb and Arab countries who believed that autonomy is the only solution. So what is left now? Morocco won’t accept this bilateral discussion away from the international umbrella (the United Nations). If Morocco had thought of dealing with the mercenaries without international intervention, it would have smashed them with arms. However, the Moroccan public refuses even autonomy because it has impacts on the political life in Morocco and maybe it will have side-effects. But since it is the only solution to wrap up this issue, it is welcome. We really want to turn to other issues …1/ opening the file of Eastern territories and non-demarcated borders. 2/ Presenting the issue of Ceuta, Melilla and Chafarinas Islands. 3/ Focus on economic activities. Wish you well Morocco.
Michael Beer Posted 2008-08-07
The oppression of the Sahrawi people is disgraceful. Van Waslim is accurate in saying that Independence is not viable as long as the illegal and immoral Moroccan occupation is backed by the US and other major powers. Sahrawi peoples may decide to join Morocco in a referendum. However the choice is theirs. Moroccan failure to allow a credible referendum only shows that they are afraid of what the Sahrawi people will say. What are they afraid of???
slim16 Posted 2008-08-07
Hi Kabs, I see that you found your comment you lost before, “Banana Republic”. In short, if I understand you right, you have also added Mauritania to your hit list. I think you need to do another “march”. Make it a blue one this time, so you can change your colours and also colonise Mauritania. That way, there will no longer be a “Banana Republic” , but a giant bloc named the “Greater Morocco”. That way, you can fight Algeria, which you do not like, more at ease. This won’t happen any time soon, my friend. There is no need to go daydreaming, as you risk insomnia. You are still wasting money to fund your occupation when the people need it more. Think about the future consequences of a likely return to armed hostilities thanks to the planned expansionism that you are dreaming of and that will bring you nothing good.
j;تونسي و أفتخر Posted 2008-08-08
After studying the issue of Western Sahara, I made the following questions which are really perplexing. Far from the official statements of any side, I want to ask many Moroccan brothers, many of them were born after the outbreak of this issue, to answer these questions. Participants may then make their judgments. Firstly, why has Morocco remembered the Sahara only after twenty years of its independence? What have Moroccan officials said to Sahraoui young people when they asked for their help at the end of the sixties? We have liberated our Morocco and you should liberate your Sahara. This was said by Bouabid, a leader of a major party in Morocco at the time. Even if Sahraouis have defended Morocco, the Makhzen (government) had betrayed them in the famous Akfion operation with France. Secondly, why has Morocco entered the Sahara only two years after the field conflict between the Sahraoui National Movement and Spanish powers after many sacrifices made by the Sahraouis in the protests of Zemla which had many victims? When Spain had to withdraw, the king exploited the situation especially because Juan Carlos, king of Spain was dying. He carried out what he called the Green March which was contrary to the beliefs of Moroccans and others. They had not entered the Western Sahara geographically; they had stopped in Tarfaya which is geographically in the South of Morocco. Is this justice? I ask the Moroccan brothers again and again, if the Sahara is Moroccan as they say, why was it divided geographically with Mauritania and with Spain economically in the famous Madrid Convention inn the middle of the seventies of the last century? This has really happened. I don’t have any more questions.
تونسي Posted 2008-08-08
I address my question for the fourth time to the Moroccan brothers. If the Sahraouis are Moroccans as the Makhzen says, why is the Sahara occupied militarily only? Why are its people maltreated, targeted with phosphoric and cluster bombs, evacuated from their land? Is this the justice of the commanders of the believers as they like to be called? We are still in the seventies of the last century. Spain had withdrawn, certainly not from the action of Makhzen. It had recognized the right of the Sahraoui people to self-determination after the withdrawal of the regime of Ould Dada, I don’t say Mauritania. More than this, it had recognized the state of the Sahraouis. Morocco remained without the parties of Madrid convention. Is this not enough to forget the eighties of the century, war and its woes? Why has the Moroccan Makhzen recognized the Polisario after denying its presence? Why has it entered it negotiations with it in different capitals of the world? Why has it signed with it’s the ceasefire treaty? It has even tried to cajole the officials of this movement. It has succeeded to persuade some of them with the money of the poor Moroccans in Marrakech, Al Hoceima and other cities. Do the Moroccan people not deserve this money? Of course they do. I ask Moroccans, where do the money of the natural resources in the Western Sahara including phosphate incomes, fishery and sands go? It has not solved the economic problems of Morocco and the people of the Sahara hasn’t benefited from it. So where could it be? By the way, during thirty years of the presence or occupation of the Western Sahara, not a single scientific institute was built in all the Sahara, no university not even a branch thereof. The existing infrastructure dates back to the era of colonization and it was just restored. I have another question to the Moroccan brothers. If the Sahara is really Moroccan, why was a security wall built dividing the Sahara to two parts? A rich side governed by the Makhzen and a black poor side for whom? Why this security approach and repression of the Sahraoui people in the territories controlled by Morocco, marginalization of original Sahraouis in administrations? Why are they considered tenth degree citizens even if it is the land of their grandfathers? This is called in the popular jargon ‘Hagra’ (humiliation). Last and foremost, if the Sahraouis were really Moroccans as the Makhzen say and pretends that they are more Moroccan then the king himself, if this is true, why this fear from the free and fair referendum under the umbrella of unbiased international parties? Or is there something dubious in that?
Kabs Posted 2008-08-08
Hi Slim, I am starting to understand you. I believe that for you this forum is like a game: you are looking for an argument, valid or not, just to keep your polemics in shape. But, good sport that I am, I am going to give you Morocco’s real position. Morocco is not interested in Mauritania or in Algeria; this was just to illustrate my point. Also, I like Algeria. I do not, however, like the policies of poor neighbourliness that Algeria leads against Morocco. Morocco does not want a war; it has always preferred peace and discussion, and this is from where the new proposition for autonomy grew. But, if we are ever attacked, then war is war. We already won the war against the Polisario and two battles against Algeria, so the little Polisario jokesters do not scare us.
رد خفيف Posted 2008-08-09
After reading the comments of Tunisian, I have two observations. Firstly, I cannot reply to the information in your message because it is all wrong. Your analysis is just wrong information which you received through hearing or discussion. So I advise you to learn reading before indulging in issues such as the Moroccan Sahara. As regards the expression mentioned in your message, is this the justice of commanders of the believers as they like to be called? I remind you that all Moroccans are proud of the monarchy and monarch. Maybe you are the last person who should speak of democracy. You know pretty well the nature of the ruling regime in your country. Neither monarchical nor presidential.
MouradNY Posted 2008-08-09
Morocco sneaky and hypocrite foreign policy against the Prolisario will bring more problems to the region and deepen its national economical and political true problems. ""Morocco has occupied Western Sahara since 1975 in violation of resolutions by the UN Security Council and a decision by the International Court of Justice. "" That's a fact. Another fact which shows how cynical and double standing is the Morocco foreign policy is the Morocco support with the US during the Iraq Kuwait war. Their participation indicated clearly and without ambiguity that Morocco recognized Kuwait as a Country, with the colonialist frontiers and not as part of the old Iraq. But when it comes to the Western Sahara, Morocco suddenly changes its mind and claims that it is part of its territories : that’s double talk If the Western Sahara is Moroccan why was it divided geographically between Mauritania and Morocco by Spain in the famous Madrid Accords. The monarchy's pursuit of territorial claims did not start with the invasion of Western Sahara, in 1975 : in 1958, it was Morocco's King who attempted to persuade the World Bank to withhold a loan to MIFERMA (Mines de Fer de Mauritanie) for the exploitation of Zouerat's iron mines, on the grounds that Mauritania was under Moroccan sovereignty. When Mauritania became independent in 1960, Morocco tried to bar its admission to the UN and withheld diplomatic recognition for almost two decades. The Moroccan claims on Mali and Senegal or the Moroccan annexionist war with Algeria just after Algeria independence are quietly forgotten. Its time to separate facts from fictions if we want peace in the region.Lets forgive but not forget.
بن الزوين عبد المجيد بن محمد Posted 2008-08-09
Peace and mercy of God be upon you. Praise be to God alone. This topic raises concerns about our Maghreb-ness. Why was Europe united together to the point that it has become strong in industry and economy? It is competing today the United States of America. However, we are lost in the problems inherited from the colonizer of borders and small states. Today Morocco, tomorrow Algeria and Libya with the Touareg. Only God knows what the colonizer makes of us and tomorrow what our grandsons will do. This saying is told by the grandfathers to grandsons. A sheikh of tribe was dying, his sons asked him to divide the land among them. He told them to bring a bunch of wood sticks. He distributed them to his sons everyone receiving one. So he asked them to break the stick. They broke all the sticks. He gave a second bunch to his elder son. He told him to break it but he couldn’t. He handed it to all his brothers, they couldn’t. So he told them this is the same for the land. If you divide it, you will be ruined economically and socially as we were ruined by the colonizer. We say this anecdote to our brothers Touareg and Polisario. They should set up parties in the centre or opposition in their countries. No and thousand no to separation as it was said by the grandfather to grandsons.
صحراوية مغربية واقتخر Posted 2008-08-10
I am a Sahraoui citizen from the Moroccan city of Laayoune. I assure you that the proposal of autonomy is the best and certain in the Sahara. As regards the Polisario group, they must accept the reality that the Sahara is Moroccan. Morocco will not relinquish a single inch of its territory. Algeria must take care of its affairs. As regards the problem of the Sahara, it is between Morocco and the Polisario, this latter should stop torturing soldiers and citizens who are desperate of lies, hunger, misery, deteriorated life. The most important is that the Sahara is Moroccan and will remain Moroccan. It is true that I am an ordinary citizen but I represent important classes of the Sahraoui people here in the city of Laayoune in the south of Morocco.
مجرد ملاحظ Posted 2008-08-10
I just hope that the Moroccan brothers answer the questions of the brother Tunisian.
slim16 Posted 2008-08-10
Hi Kabs, I am quite relieved that you are a good sport. Politics is a game, where, like poker, having four of a kind gives you the power to bluff while knowing you are certain to win. Even if you manage to understand me, know that, for my part, there has been a fair amount of time that I think I have understood you, and that is why I react as such. Know that I respect you because of your education, of the ferocity you have in defending your ideas (which I do not share at all) and, especially, for your mind to try to understand your opposition, which is over your head (and you want to figure out why). But—and there is a but—I advise you to not rely on your pomp, because, when you make your illustrations, you make them with ideas that are absurdly expansionist like the ones you mentioned above. The eavesdroppers was able to qualify you a lot more precisely than I did myself. (And, I understand even more because of it.) Good job! You have my regards from Algiers. (One more thing: the little jokesters have become big jokesters and risk showing their other, more ferocious faces!)
BEN Posted 2008-08-12
This Slim 16, intriguing... Curiously, he holds the favour of Magharebia. Is he a professional bluffer? He never stops repeating himself in his hollow comments, when one alone would suffice to show his position. Not knowing Morocco, he persists in writing diatribes against this country. He says he is Algerian, but he resembles a Sahrawi character a lot more. As the popular saying goes: “It is better to kill a Sahrawi than to contradict him.”
Kabs Posted 2008-08-12
Your compliment meant a lot to me, coming from a tough opponent. This proves that you are a gentleman outside the ring but a tough competitor in the ring. I will give you my sincere feelings on the win-win theory. First, contrary to what many Algerians think, I think that Algeria can also win out by opening the border. The modern world and globalisation are prompting us to join into a bloc so as to be better armed for global competition. There are such blocs on all the continents. Even the developing countries of South America form a bloc. The question that arises is: “Are all these countries mistaken?” I do not think so! Second, Algerians are saying that Morocco is going to flood our country with contraband and marijuana. This argument is worthless, given that Spain is not afraid of this and that we know they have problems with Harragas. With the good management of the borders, everything can be handled. Third, Morocco is also afraid of Al-Qaeda being in the Maghreb. But we take our courage in both hands, because it is better to help each other out against terrorism than to stick our heads in the sand like an ostrich.
Kabs Posted 2008-08-12
(Continued) Fourth, one of your arguments goes that Algeria would gain nothing from this. This is not true. Your country already exports electricity to Morocco, Spain and Europe via Moroccan electrical grids. You have a lot to gain by using your raw materials to produce electricity and sell it in Europe. Also, Algeria exports its gas through Morocco, which buys some of it. These are just some examples, and there could be many more, like cement, iron and, generally speaking, all heavy industry. It is true that Morocco will gain a lot more from this— tourism, a flow of merchandise and so on— but if we start making petty little calculations, nothing will ever get done for the good of our two countries. One last question: why did the Europeans unite and not us? I think quite simply that they have arrived at a degree of maturity and compromise that permits them to overcome problems with self-esteem and misplaced pride.
slim16 Posted 2008-08-12
To Ben, the murderer of Sahrawis: Your saying was repugnant. If you were civilised, you would prefer to "contradict" rather than "kill"... even if you do not like the Sahrawis... As such, you made the flagrant offence of an amateur: you led everyone to believe that all Moroccans are like you, the barbarian who thinks of killing instead of talking. What a bad image! I am Algerian and I know Morocco, but in a different way and from a different point of view than you. I lead you on because you seem too full of yourself. You think you hold the truth, but you forget that others don’t think the same way as you. In short, you do not understand the freedom of thought. You need to learn!
Moulay Rashid Posted 2008-08-13
It's obvious to anyone who has been following the developments between Morocco and polisario that we are currently witnessing the death of the polisario. Decades past the polisario could rely on communist/socialist nations for support notable amongst them algeria/cuba/libya. However, now their support for this corrupt group of power hungry people who claim to represent sahraoui people yet brainwash young kids in Marxist theology using a foreign language (spanish) are beginning to feel constricted. Anyone who wants to see a prosperous peaceful Maghreb must surely understand the sooner the polisario are disbanded the better. They and their supporters have caused nothing but trouble for the maghreb.
gol Posted 2008-08-14
In Response to Slim 16: Since you are an Algerian, it would be better for you to get involved where the real murdering, barbarism and so on are, because the real barbarism is all around you. Don’t you see it?
lembarki jamel Posted 2008-08-15
Resuming discussions would be beneficial, but what would be best would be to get to the heart of the problem and for the Moroccan authorities to be serious. Given the strength of their right to self-determination, the Sahrawis will never return to the project for autonomy so wanted by Morocco. Therefore, if there are talks in the future, then they will be uniquely about arrangements for independence. There is no place for us rehashing unfounded speeches concerning the Grand Morocco and Morocco’s territorial integrity: its border stops where the Western Sahara’s starts. Morocco has lost too much time and money on such ephemeral projects; it is time to be serious and think about the future, leaving the Sahrawis to freely chose their destiny and minding our own business.
slim16 Posted 2008-08-17
I decided to move on to more serious things, because Ben has pushed me to do so by making derogatory remarks, saying things like “hollow comments”, “not knowing Morocco” and so on. So, for you, Ben, and my unforgotten friend Kabs, I will offer you a few truths that I hope will get you thinking. Currently, 85 countries recognize the RASD. The last country to do so was Paraguay. Moreover, the RASD has just been admitted as an observer into the International Socialist. For those who love Peter van Waslum, know that his term ends on the 21 August and that he will surely be called on for different missions. Thus, it seems that 85 countries, 85 flags, respect this just cause, so deserved by these people who refuse to submit to the dictatorship of a declining Monarch. (It has $50 billion in debt.) These are also 85 wise arguments in favour of the noble Sahrawi people, who are marching sure-footedly on the path to independence. It should be noted that no country has recognised the Western Sahara as being Moroccan, but, on the contrary, that this is a colonial doing. Even the geographical maps, save those of Morocco, deny this. I would like to offer you this quote: “Man does not progress towards truth through error, but through truth itself, moving from a smaller truth to a greater truth.” Just something to think about. -Until my soon-to-come follow-up, from Algiers, Bye
slim16 Posted 2008-08-17
I will continue to forge ahead because I have the wind in my sails and I want to take advantage of it. To my friends, Ben and Kabs: I wanted to leave you in suspense, waiting for the follow-up I promised in the near future. For your information, a second notice for bidding on oil prospecting was just issued in Houston, USA by the Sahrawi Republic, which rightly decided not to wait for any hypothetical agreement so that it could preserve and exploit its subterranean and oceanic natural resources. A Sahrawi delegation went to the annual oil- and gas-industry exposition held in Houston. Several corporations and foreign companies as well as press agencies specialised in this field attended the official ceremony for the presentation of Mr M’hamed Khadad’s, a member of the general secretariat of the Polisario Front, presentation on this project. The representative Sahraoui said in his statement that closing date for this second bidding notice is scheduled for October 2008. Confident, the Sahrawi leader welcomed the success of the first of such operations, where— hold on to your seats— nine licensing agreements were made with eight oil companies through the Sahrawi Republic’s Petroleum Authority. I will be following up very soon on this subject. –From Algiers, Bye
gol Posted 2008-08-18
If the United Nations called for a dialogue between Morocco and the Polisario, then it is indeed because the independence of the Western Sahara is not realistic. If it were just about having some sort of referendum, then it would have been enough to take it!!! It is no accident that Peter van Walsum has been charged with this case: he knows the case better than anyone else and he knows that the plan for independence is nothing more than sand in our eyes and that the 85 countries that recognize the fictive democratic republic have no political weight on the international scene. The majority of them are moreover, as the United States has designated them, part of the “Axis of Evil” like Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela and so on.
just me Posted 2008-08-18
This Slim16 is tripping me out! He is a real savage beast, who loves it when we throw peanuts at his cage. Keep on entertaining the audience; you are doing a good job!
Ego Posted 2008-08-18
Hi Slim16! As you can see I have returned from my vacation in the boonies and, as such, I am no longer in the loop because I was disconnected for some time. Also, allow me to let you down here with regards to the opening of the border, but I completely agree with my friend Kabs's analysis. In effect, the argument about contraband and drug trafficking advanced by our authorities does not hold up. In my opinion, it seems to be a fallacious argument. In effect, a problem that represent the police’s prerogatives cannot be a precondition for opening the borders between two brother peoples. I assure you that this is in no way wafty talk on my part. My opinion is that Morocco and Algeria have a lot— a whole lot— of things that bring them closer and only a few— very few— things that separate them. I am not exaggerating, but because of the mutual economic interests that could develop between from coming to a good political understanding— and this would indeed be mutual— I can affirm that both sides have blood ties that have always existed and have been mixed throughout the ages. This makes all of us Algerians a little bit Moroccan and vice versa too! You know this as well as I do, Slim16: opening the border is a wild card connected to the windfall of cash in the hands of our leaders in order to resolve the problem with the Western Sahara. The rest of it— all the rest of it— is just politicking. That said, I remain with the opinion that Morocco, our brother country— yes, indeed— needs to give the Sahrawis the opportunity for self-determination through a referendum that is honest, decent and loyal as our national butterfly said...
gol Posted 2008-08-20
Whereas Morocco aims to have 10 million tourists in 2010, a week does not pass in Algeria, as we have learned through the media, without these atrocious attacks. Speaking about opening the border is a political blunder. Just put yourself in the place of the tourists who want to take a vacation in Morocco and learn through the media that the border, which protects them from such horror, has been removed.
slim16 Posted 2008-08-20
Ego; I am happy to be reading your comments again! I do not believe that I am against “large blocs”. On the contrary, within the context of globalisation, the best way to protect yourself is to be an integral part of a strong economic entity that includes several countries, for example: the countries of Europe. In our case, the case of the Arab Maghreb Union, too many problems making our dynamics currently not work. The countries’— Algeria’s and Morocco’s— different politics are a brick wall that is too difficult to break down. And, it will not be with economic-integration policies that this will change. But, as you say, “politicking” is forcing itself on us. Therefore, let us do away with the Polisario problem, Morocco having to accept a referendum, and everything will get better, no matter what issue is at hand. This is what the Moroccan rulers do not want to understand: the ‘Big Arab Maghreb Bloc’ has the precondition of a referendum!
Ego Posted 2008-08-21
Hi Slim, The pleasure is mine as well. I really appreciate your fugue in defending your ideas, and that goes for all the forums. I always find pleasure in reading you. Getting back to the subject of this bloody border, I would like to blow it into thin air with dynamite the same way I would with this imaginary wall you are speaking of; it seems to me to be built by our ruler’s conflictual politicking. You see, Slim, my friend, what drives me to despair and gets me mad is not, strictly speaking, the opening or closing of this border— though I do hope for its opening with all my strength, this will not be happening any time soon— rather it is the culture of hatred and egoism that establishes itself on both sides. Worse yet, this is the doing of those who seem to be our elites. They are (unconsciously?) cheapening our glorious heritage: the ideal of the North African star, built on the sacrifices of at least two Maghreb generations. Of course, a resolution to the Western-Sahara problem needs to be found one way or another, but should it come to the detriment of future generations? Of course not! Between you and me, Slim, don’t you think that if there were political harmony in the noblest sense of the term between the two governments, Algeria could better influence things one way or another? Why isn’t it doing this when it has done it and still does it with happiness in other conflicts? In the end, what I have to follow this with is plagiarism: "I have a dream". I will let you try to guess what it is, my friend, my brother.
Ego Posted 2008-08-23
Just Me! Although you do not seem any nicer in any particular way than any of the other trolls haunting this place, I am going to tell you a story. It is up to you to draw the moral from it. Once upon a time, in the intense cold of a harsh winter, a small canary, chilled by the cold, fell from his nest. His death was imminent. Then, came a bull with horns and all. He had pity on him. But, what could he do? He plopped down on the canary, and I don’t have to draw you a picture here, but it worked out quite nicely and the result was that the canary warmed back up and was able to start scampering around at ease. “Chirp!” “Chirp!” A hungry wolf nearby heard the chirping and chirping! He came, and took the little birdie between his fingers—at that time wolves had fingers—lifted him up by the feathers, cleaned him off and… Yum yum—into the tummy of the wolf he went! “Hi Slim! How are things going?” So, “Just Me”, what do you say?
slim16 Posted 2008-08-24
Hi Ego, What you call plagiarism— the dream you speak of— could be valid if, in my opinion, there were no people who were saying that opening the border would be a “political blunder” because they are afraid that the terrorists will have the tourists fleeing. If such people did not exist, everything would be great in the region! They cultivate a mentality of fear, so much so that it weighs the spine down! They will never rise up out of this dependence and servility. Here there is one flagrant example of this, in what one finds to be a “narrow-minded, egocentric and opportunist apparatchik”, who thinks that the world balances on him when he does not even have a dirham in his pocket. Sorry, but I, as I am an Algerian, can do better than these burlesque, backward, under-achieving ideas. And, even if I am in favour of the “big blocs”, I think it is necessary to eradicate these vermin before signing some sort of parchment. Maybe one day not far off it will happen that we can have discussions with new leaders who have a more logical and, more especially, healthier mentality. –From Algiers, Bye
Ego Posted 2008-08-24
Hi Slim16! I do not doubt that you read my comments addressed to Zineb. I know, my friend, that this came at the loss of me being ridiculous or, rather, pathetic— or perhaps I was both. I am not sure; it is up to you and those who read them to judge. You wonder why I made such comments? Well, even if this is only online, I consider myself your friend, and friendship, to me, has a certain meaning. I do not ever want to lose your esteem, which I have no doubts in. Also, I would like to tell you that these comments— these appeals from the heart… or rather my blood— will be understood by her if she reads them. I have no doubt in this. They do not have the meaning both that you believe them to have and that is often given to this type of appeal. Zineb/Wassila is a great lady. She is the son of a great man, and that is in the real sense of the term. This is all that I can tell you about her, and that is why I am doing this on the net. In fact, this is not my motivation for addressing this comment to you; my reason is to ask you to not believe that this is not the basis for my position on the opening of the border being and the establishment of better relations between our Algeria and our brother, Morocco. Believing this, Slim, would make me lower my own eye. Believe it, my friend, because I am sincere.
gol Posted 2008-08-24
The Maghreb Union could indeed come about without Morocco just like the European Union, which was not built on 27 countries, but 6! We could thus have Algeria, Mauritania, Libya and Tunisia form the Union of al-Qaeda in the Maghreb!!!
Med Posted 2008-09-01
Morocco is not Indonesia and the Polisario is not the Free Aceh Movement. There is nothing in common with these two, except Morocco’s desires to find the same solution. Things are on the way now and, contrary to what this article says, Mr van Walsum was ruled out of being the mediator between Morocco and the Polisario. However, Morocco’s proposal still has not changed; it goes against Resolution 1813, demanding a compromise between the two parties. Does Morocco really want a solution to this conflict? For the time being, nothing suggests this; Morocco prefers the status quo. But, for how long will this last? The next negotiations are going to be decisive: this time they will have a neutral mediator, something that risks putting Morocco in an uncomfortable situation. Moreover, considering the setbacks they suffered in the Georgian crisis, the USA and France are no longer able to impose the Moroccan solution. All that remains is international law, which confirms the right to self-determination for the Sahrawi people even if it is not to the liking of most of the readers, whose comments are for the majority in favour of autonomy under Moroccan sovereignty.
Farid Posted 2008-09-03
In Response to Gol: The goal of your country’s government to have 10 million tourists by 2010 is nothing but a “goal”, just like the goal for economic growth in 2007, which was set at 8% in the beginning but turned out to be 2.5%, the lowest in the Maghreb. And, you know that Arab projections are never reached. We do not count on anybody— neither tourists, nor rain. Allah loves us and has given us a country full of wealth. In fact, did you know that customs will soon be provided with helicopters to be survey the border? Soon, Soul El Fellah and Oujda will be devoid of Algerian products and the service stations will be re-opened over there because there will be no more Algerian gasoline. As for the Arab Maghreb, we do not need this institution: our reserves our full, praise God. With regards to tourists, most of them are French penny-pinchers; what are they going to spend? There is no need to pay attention to the number of tourists, because in two days of oil and gas production we already make up for an entire year's worth of tourism revenue. The proof is in how you will not stop begging for the border to be opened. You know that Morocco and Mauritania are the poorest countries in the Maghreb. Even with tourism, we are better than you. Try to imagine if we did not have terrorism! —Bye Gol
slim16 Posted 2008-09-03
To Med: My Brother, you are right: the aforementioned autonomy our neighbours in the West are offering to an entire suffering people is nothing but candy to a child. But, as the Sahrawis are proud and noble-minded and are no longer children, it is a lot easier for them to swallow the pill of self-determination than it is for their enemies. You follow me? Their Peter Van Something-rather put his foot in his mouth, Meanwhile, there were some who believed in this old broken record. Ego, you seem perturbed to me. You alone know the reason for that, as it is far from me to poorly of your choice in topic. You already know you have my appreciation and my friendship, even if they are “virtual”. Nothing else could be more touching than the appeal you just made to me, and I am indebted to your trust. As for the great lady about whom you are speaking, I have given her my sympathy and I hope she will accept. Maybe she will understand this!? Who knows? Do not fret, my brother, I am enough of a psychologist to understand you. —From Algiers, Bye
SAYEH Posted 2008-09-04
Listen, Si Moh, we are tired of this story with the Polisario, which has gone on for too long. It is an affair that a few generals used to ruin our country. My father is a former mujaheddin. He told me a lot about the Moroccans who were with him in the Algerian resistance movement and that Mohamed V refused them re-entry into Morocco during that time if they would abandon their fight against the French. He gave us a giant helping hand. Meanwhile, the generals divided up the army and took part in torturing Algerians under their heads, Belkheir, Nazar and so on. And, they continue to pillage the Algerian’s money. I swear to you that if Larbi Benmhidi, the great, and the other mujaheddins were to return one day, they would start by eliminating this Harki scum. So, let us not be ungrateful for towards our neighbours and let us not blindly follow our bandits. They assassinated Boudiaf, drove off Ait Ahmed, reduced Ben Bella, Saadi Yousef and the entire face of the Algerian revolution to silence and took over the legitimate history of the mujaheddins for themselves!
gol Posted 2008-09-06
In response to Farid: You are incoherent. I would like you to explain to me how, in Algeria, you do not need “anybody—neither tourists, nor rain.” Explain to me then what you are doing in France? How is it that so many Algerians are falling below the poverty line and are ready to give their lives to leave the country, obliging Bouteflika to pass a law against illegal emigrants, treating them just like terrorists!!! Meanwhile, Bouteflika forgets that if the Algerians are fleeing the country, then it is because of his poor standing, which have not permitted him to fight against insecurity or terrorism. Rather than recoginize his standing, he blames the poor Algerians.
OMAR Posted 2008-09-06
Clearly, these false Algerians, the sons of Harkis, hold a grudge against Morocco! Go take a look at where Israel stands, or are you afraid to! It seems that Morocco is the only one in this world! All the worse for you! Say what you will!
HOUARI D ORAN Posted 2008-09-06
We real Algerians are impatiently awaiting the opening of the border. Slim16, Farid and the others do not know what race they belong to. Because of all this, even though they certainly live in Algeria, they are not Algerians. I was in Morocco this summer. Bravo! What progress you have made! Keep it up! I was surprised by how welcoming the Moroccans were. They are very open people. Well, I was embarrassed because I do not have a car. Now, I am convinced that the Sahara is Moroccan. Be mindful, not all Algerians are the same!
HOUARI D ORAN Posted 2008-09-08
No, I am a Moroccan. That’s Ramadan for you! That is why I want the border opened—so I can be a trafficker.
Anonymous Posted 2008-09-08
My dear friends, You have not managed to convince anyone that the Sahara is not Moroccan. You are losing your time!
slim16 Posted 2008-09-08
Houari is more Moroccan than he is Algerian. This is not unusual as he is not far from the border. If you are a smuggler, then this is not unusual. Do not bring to many drugs over, you might die or end up in handcuffs.
HOUARI Posted 2008-09-10
My father may be Algerian and my mother Moroccan, but you are certainly a Polisario, given you have such hatred for the Moroccans. To me, a simple citizen, the real drugs are the fat cats and their businesses. You should not forget that most Algerians in the West have family in Morocco and vice versa. So, stop this nonsense about drugs and go back home. Ever since we came to know you, we have become poor. You have ruined the Maghreb.
A SLIM ZB Posted 2008-09-11
Hey Polsario! We give you a place to live and you insult us!?
We welcome your comments on Magharebia's articles.
It is our hope that you will use this forum to interact with other readers across the Maghreb. In order to keep this experience interesting, we ask you to follow the rules outlined in the comments policy. By submitting comments, you are consenting to these rules. While Magharebia.com encourages discussion on all subjects, including sensitive ones, the comments posted are solely the views of those submitting them. Magharebia.com does not necessarily endorse or agree with the ideas, views, or opinions voiced in these comments. This is a moderated forum. Comments deemed abusive, offensive, or those containing profanity may not be published.
Magharebia's Comments Policy