Polisario questions effectiveness of latest Manhasset talks
2008-07-03
The Polisario Front may abandon Western Sahara negotiations with Morocco, following remarks by UN envoy Peter van Walsum that independence is no longer feasible.
By Naoufel Cherkaoui for Magharebia in Rabat – 03/07/08
![]() [Getty Images] The Polisario Front has expressed frustration with the process of negotiations over Western Sahara. Leader Mohamed Abdelaziz said: "The Sahrawi people are more determined than ever to defend their legitimate rights." |
The Polisario Front is concerned over the usefulness of a fifth round of negotiations with Morocco over the Western Sahara, according to Mohamed Khaddad, negotiator and Sahrawi representative to the United Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara (MINURSO).
In a recent interview with Spanish daily El Pais, the official protested UN Special Envoy Peter van Walsum's recent statement that independence is not practical. "We are playing in a game where the referee is casting us out while letting our opponents score," he said.
Abdul Qader Talib Omar of the Polisario Front said in a June 24th press conference in Algiers that van Walsum's comments "killed the calendar for new negotiations".
Talib Omar said further negotiations are problematic because van Walsum's conduct calls into question his neutrality, "which is supposed to be the hallmark of his position."
The Polisario is "getting ready to pursue the option of armed struggle," he said, "but it does not wish to go to war. The UN must take action because violence and the situation are worsening."
Moroccan Prime Minister Abbas El Fassi told the press Monday (June 30th) in Rabat that his government remains committed to its international obligations despite the setback, saying any withdrawal by the Polisario will simply provide evidence against them.
Khalid Naciri, Moroccan Minister of Communications and government spokesman, said on June 26th that efforts to curb negotiations on the Sahara issue are useless. Morocco, he added, remains open-minded about the negotiation process, with determination to achieve a lasting solution.
"The Security Council resolutions and declarations of the Secretary-General and his personal envoy," he added, "made it clear that parties need to engage in negotiations with good intentions."
Polisario leader Mohamed Abdelaziz also voiced his disappointment over a recent message sent from US President George W. Bush to Mohammed VI expressing the former's support for the Moroccan plan for Western Sahara autonomy, claiming it shows a bias towards the Moroccan side in the negotiations.
Abdelaziz added, "The Sahrawi people are more determined than ever to defend their legitimate rights through lawful means in line with the charter and resolutions of the international legitimacy. MINURSO has not completed its mission yet."
In response, US Ambassador to Algeria Robert Steven Ford on June 23rd said the US administration has no desire to "exercise pressure on the Polisario Front".
"The Western Sahara case has dragged on long enough," Ford said. "Therefore, there must be a fast solution to alleviate the suffering of those people."
The ambassador closed by saying the US administration would never ask the Polisario to accept the Moroccan proposal, and that it welcomes other ideas from the Polisario. Any such meetings, however, "will continue to be under the UN umbrella".
Morocco and the Polisario have held four rounds of negotiations on Western Sahara since June of last year, without achieving any real progress. A fifth round was due in June but has been delayed.







Moulay Hisham Posted 2008-07-03
The polisario are a spent and decrepid force with no real strategic objectives. Speaking from a historical point of view it is obvious we are witnessing the beginning of the end of this rif raf organisation. No wonder many of their leadership have come back to Morocco, in fact so many have left their organisation that the polisario have started using physical violence and intimidation to prevent saharouis from leaving the tindouf concentration camps. The polisario are nothiing but a relic from the past when communism was seen as a threat to western civilisation. The sooner they disintegrate the better for the whole of the Maghreb.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-03
We need to give a breath of fresh air to these negotiations. In order to do so, we need a new arbiter, because van Walsum is cooked. Before the negotiations can come to a close, we need a man of integrity, who does not go blowing his mouth off. We need new proposals from both sides in order to move forward. We need to forget about the proposals made earlier. We need to be original and find other solutions at any cost. And, all of this is for the good of the united Maghreb.
بنيونس Posted 2008-07-03
The land of the fathers and grandfathers. We have repeatedly asked Morocco to stop its negotiations with the Polisario because this organization is representing only itself. It is a terrorist organization and the Polisario disowns it. But there are other organizations which really represent part of the Sahraouis. They need to be taken care of. As to the military side, Morocco should be quite ready and alert.
القندوسي Posted 2008-07-03
The Moroccan Eastern Sahara: I think that the Algerian armament is mainly destined for Morocco because the vicious intentions of the Algerian generals towards the neighbouring Muslim country are well-known. But Morocco will not surrender or forsake its legitimate rights whatever the price or time. From here I address a call to all the brothers in the Moroccan Eastern Sahara (Tindouf, Touat, Bechar, Tidikla, Saoura…) I tell them again and again: You are Moroccans, your fathers are Moroccans and your grandfathers are Moroccans. Therefore, the responsibility of the nation falls upon you all. The decision is in your hands and not in the hands of the oppressive generals of Algeria. All the Moroccan people are with you. So go ahead, the struggle continues and triumph will come soon.
Ouchen Posted 2008-07-04
What is the point of opening a webpage for comments if you only publish that which goes with the grain of the American vision, which we all know is extremist, backwards, awkward and constrained into the image of the president and his clique of gangsters?
Kabs Posted 2008-07-04
The logic here is primarily concerned with justification and valuation, not merely observation. Did the Sahrawi state exist before the year 1884? Was there ever a sovereign Sahrawi Sahara before 1884? Was there a border between Morocco and the Sahara before 1884? 1884 was the year that Spain invaded the Sahara. Balkanisation is an evil legacy of colonialism. I just learned from a documentary that France had wanted to do the same thing with the Algerian Sahara, but, fortunately for them, it did not happen. Otherwise, there would have been a Toureg Arab Emirate in the Sahara with only 200 thousand inhabitants and billions in petrodollars.
Anonymous Posted 2008-07-04
The Moroccan Separatists have well understood where Algeria is leading them.
azaghar Posted 2008-07-04
Why would van Walsum be cooked? Is it because he said what everyone was already thinking? Do you think that Morocco would offer the Sahara to Algeria? Let us call a spade a spade and be realistic: there is no option for independence and Algeria needs to resign itself to this fact.
abdelaziz meziane Posted 2008-07-04
The Polisario is speaking as if this is a game. Either that, or this is the fate of a population that is sequestered and has suffered such that it does not see things the same. Morocco is pushing realistically for anything that can help advance this case towards a realistic and definitive resolution.
Abdelaziz Meziane Posted 2008-07-04
Van Walsum, as an informed politician and, in the end, an expert on this case, dared to openly and loudly declare that the Polisario and Algeria are pretending not to understand. Geopolitics, world peace, stability and the people’s prosperity—there are many substantial and credible reasons for van Waslum to carry out the task that was entrusted to him.
Rami Posted 2008-07-05
Can sombody please tell me what polisario stand for.... are they camel drivers,are they trafic warden in the desert?
BEN Posted 2008-07-05
“All of this is for the good of the Maghreb.” Slim 16 is thinking about the good of the Maghreb. For over thirty years, there have been no such thoughts. And, this is why we need a lot, lot, lot. According to him, after having “cooked” van Walsum, the necessary conditions will prevail. At the very least we are people who are free to speak and make decisions, but who are trapped by so very many commitments, which must by respected in force. We can therefore offer him some conditions to make things easier. I know that it is not possible to turn a mercenary state into a state of law in one day; we need time—a lot of time—to settle our accounts and the accounts of those making claims to power.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-05
When you have the responsibility of being an arbiter during a conflict, you must learn to act to do your share and bring the ship to port. If this gentleman had remained neutral in light of the effective resolution of this problem, the negotiations could have objectively continued in the right direction—something that is now no longer the case. The Polisario will not go back to negotiating so long as this gentleman is around. Thus, it seem that he has been cooked. Azaghar, my friend, why do you think that Algeria wants the Western Sahara? This is truly poorly thought out. Our Sahara is already too big for us. We have too much sand over here. Leave the Western Sahara to those who live there. All those who are in Tindouf would be able to go home peacefully. And, these are not Algerians but displaced Sahrawi refugees over here. Do a good deed, and God will render it back upon you a thousand-fold. This would be a humane gesture, worthy of the best. Id you like to make people suffer, then continue on, because you are on the right path to evil. And, if you like van Walsum, then you must assume the possible consequence of a new war, which you seem to be awaiting with impatience. When that time comes, the gentlemen in question will be far from the crossfire and will not be offering anything to Morocco or the Polisario. The voice of wisdom is one of a Moroccan and Sahrawi peace of togetherness, not one of scorn out of political impotence.
Moulay Hesham Posted 2008-07-07
The polisario claim to represent saharaoui culture yet they send their children to be educated in Cuba to emersed in communism and marxist philosophy using the spanish language as their mother tongue. Many of the brainwashed kids arrive speaking only spanish. This is a form of cultural genocide and theft! How can an organisation claim to represent a people when they systematically brainwash the younger generation using a foreign and alien culture? This is absolutely absurd and ridiculous. Abdelaziz Marakeshi has become a puppet to his masters and the sooner he realises this the better.
gol Posted 2008-07-07
The point of sending UN staff there was not to be a neutral spectator, but to move things forward so as to come to a definitive resolution of this artificial conflict born from the Cold War. It was to get the Polisario and Algeria to understand that the fight they are leading is absurd and reeks of the Middle Ages. If not, what would be the point of him remaining neutral? This evasion by the Polisario is absurd. It is as if a football team told the referee that they will only play if he blows the whistle and calls the faults in their favour—something that is unacceptable and ridiculous.
قريش رشيد Posted 2008-07-07
Why does this online publication choose in its maps of the Maghreb countries to cut an important section of its geography? As free Moroccan people, we don’t accept to participate in a forum which doesn’t respect the real and natural borders of the kingdom of Morocco. The Sahara is Moroccan both territorially and educationally. We can only reiterate allegiance, covenant and its vow to protect it and restore it very soon. The Sahara is exploited by Algeria and the Polisario. They only act to undermine development in the Arab Maghreb, reform and progress for an important region in the world strategic position. Algeria and the few mercenaries kill the dream of one hundred million Maghreb people who badly need openness, prosperity and development. The policy of the status quo will exhaust Algeria and its baby girl in the prospect of the implementation of the right to return for the Moroccans imprisoned in Tindouf. Their manoeuvres will be of no use to a country which has a long history in human diplomacy. History will rehabilitate the kingdom of Morocco. The peoples can do nothing. The limp policy of Algeria is certainly in its final phase. Morocco is a country which respects international legitimacy. The world community is well aware of this. Despite the contradictions of some countries, they secretly recognize the Moroccan Sahara.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-07
The special envoy’s mission was not to privilege Morocco with his speeches, which the secretary general of the UN himself did not want and cautioned against. He did nothing but piss in the wind... Instead of running their mouths in favour of Morocco, it would have been more professional to look for more objective solutions. He is not the right man for the job. He is cooked!!!
عميري Posted 2008-07-07
This is a reply to Kendoussi. Algerians aren’t Moroccans or Sahraouis. You are speaking the language of your master Hassan II. We don’t allow you this. Do you know that one of your military battalions has this wish? But the Algerian army was firm with it. The price of this battle was very high. There were many prisoners of the royal army. If we had sacrificed a million and half a million for Algeria, we will sacrifice 35 million Algerians against you. I think that the Algerian army hasn’t forgotten the battle of Amgala. The lazy student doesn’t remember the lessons delivered by his master. You are playing with fire. You don’t know the sons of the rebels who have defeated the strong colonial armies and have inherited this from the fathers and forefathers. But if you say that the Sahara is Moroccan, why is Morocco refusing the referendum? Why doesn’t wage war against the Sahraouis as you pretend that your Morocco is strong in terms of the arms strategy? If the Sahara were Moroccan, why has it divided it with Mauritania? We don’t accept the division of our territory with anyone even if we die for it. You seem to forget the ruling of the International Court which has decided on this issue. Why do you join Algeria to this issue? Algeria wants nothing whether from the Sahara or Morocco. The only thing that it wants is that you and others like you who know nothing about politics to close your mouths. You are only good at gossiping to create trouble. You are nil.
Med Posted 2008-07-08
I thank all the authors of the comments who, for once, have been very constructive. There was more discussion and more respect, and this is a good omen. Subsequent events will no longer be about van Walsum but Resolution 1813. It is now a question of the two parties coming to a compromise and opting for a definitive solution that is acceptable to everybody. The Polisario needs to be realistic. It is desirable that they present a new plan for the resolution with a few more concessions than they had in their previous stance. As for Morocco, it needs to abandon the idea of limiting itself to its proposal alone and needs to also make some concessions in order to definitively resolve the conflict and have the region prosper. Good luck to all our Moroccan brothers and Sahrawi brothers. We are confident that they are able to resolve this problem through negotiations without having to go through Manhasset or having van Walsum present.
acharif moulay abdellah bouskraoui Posted 2008-07-08
“An Open Letter to the Polisario” May praise be to God alone. There you have it, you have gathered united on a land that is not your own with men who are bloodthirsty and do not want peace or a dialogue. They only want the sound of the weapons they now hear, wanting to go to war again at any cost. They do not stop torturing the Moroccans sequestered in Tindouf, not having the slightest respect for human rights. These men are egged on by the Algerian Secret Services, drug barons and arms traffickers. These men profit off of the suffering of others, sending their great profits to their Swiss bank accounts. So, listen to the voice of wisdom and return to your country, Morocco, which will proud to welcome its lost son onto the path of wisdom. Your country, like a mother, is always ready to forgive her sons. Morocco has offered you autonomy, and this will guarantee your dignity. My lost brothers, may the Lord put you on the right path and may you realise that what you are doing is far from being wise. My brothers, the history of the Sahara is rich with a glorious past—a past you can be proud of. Morocco has always been the land of nobles and warriors, the land of Chourafa, the descendant of the prophet, and the land of Islam. My brothers, be proud of your past and your present, because under the reign of Alaouite sovereignty, the Sahara was, is and will always be a welcoming land, with sands of gold and a past of glory. We, the Sahrawis, are proud to be Moroccans. We are proud of our young and dynamic sovereign, His Majesty, King Mohamed VI, who has always done his best for our good and our development. My brothers, be vigilant against the propaganda of the Polisario, which is nothing more than a band of criminals and traffickers.
محمد ولد سام-الجمهوريه الصحراويه الديمقراطيه الشعب Posted 2008-07-08
There is no alternative to self-determination: independence or war.
MOHAMED Posted 2008-07-08
It suffices to say that Algeria had its families separated when it sent the Moroccans over the border back to Morocco in 1975. That is our history.
Kabs Posted 2008-07-09
Magharebia; I would like to know why you let some comments get by while you censor others. I have sent you the comment “Banana Republic” five times now, but it has never been published!!! I will thank you for providing me with an explanation. I believe that your goal is to encourage the freedom of expression and not to be a bully.
naji Posted 2008-07-09
Conditions of the world today under globalisation impose on the states of the Arab Maghreb to speed up the construction of an economic Maghreb unity. This can be achieved only if the problems of the region are solved, especially the problem of the Western Sahara. The initiative suggested by Morocco to solve the issue by offering the people of the region of the Sahara a regional and applicable self-determination. This initiative is in harmony with the strategy of political and administrative reforms adopted by the Moroccan regime in order to activate the policy of decentralization which the kingdom wants to achieve. For Morocco, since the dawn of Islam and to the beginning of colonization, the Sahara was always representing an extension to it and a liking chain with western Sudan (Senegal) which was the destination of trading caravans and an important commercial centre to liquidate its products and buy valuable goods from it. It is very clear that colonization played an important and significant role in dividing the wide territory of Morocco distinct by its varied races which are united by religion, belief and allegiance to the central authority. It turned it into separated parts so that it is easy to control the resources of the country and take command of its population. We don’t want to expose history in order to prove the roots of the Moroccan Sahara because this is very clear. But Algeria must try with Morocco to settle the fabricated conflict within the Maghreb house. The Polisario must accept the initiative it should show political experience so that it would have the merit for building a strong Arab Maghreb economically and politically in addition to uniting the Sahraoui brothers. Leaders of the Arab Maghreb should sacrifice the special interests of their countries which serve the enemies of the Maghreb unity. They should leave aside everything that could cause fragmentation and division. They must make efforts to spread peace in the Arab Maghreb. Finally, there is power in unity while there is weakness in division. We wish success to the leaders for the good of the Arab and Maghreb nation. We also hope that the Polisario wakes up from its drowsiness and reconsider its goals, methods and concepts. It should take into consideration the interest of the Maghreb people with all its components.
BEN Posted 2008-07-09
The UN’s special envoy does not want to give false hopes to those who denied that Morocco was a well-established state, being just tribes of nomads who are allied to the King during difficult times— a fact recognised by the International Court of Justice. The Moroccan state has been recognised by the USA since 1777, before the colonisation of Tarfaya and the regions in the Western Sahara. These belligerent tribes sold their souls to the Devil and the colonisers, their masters. Above all else, the know who they are and where they come from. So, stop playing with history with some unacknowledged, hostil goal in mind. Van Walsum gave you a precious piece of advice; may you take advantage of it.
نجاة Posted 2008-07-09
Algerian chauvinism is inherited naturally. Nature doesn’t change even in the peaceful discussion. You hope that he brings the blade and the stick. Terrorists by nature. Good doesn’t know its effect with you. Return to the positions of Morocco with you since the beginning of history. They are all manly positions which reflect the attitude of the Amazigh free Muslim man. We have helped you in wars. We have supported you in difficult situations. Our response was always good to you, no counterpart to the evil. We have annulled the visa, facilitated your entry to Morocco whenever you want. You have closed all the doors in the face of anyone who wants to enter your deteriorating country which is going back while we are going forward with our young and tolerant king who has inherited good administration and respect for the good neighbourhood even if you have done wrong to us. About the last contributor, you are talking from void. This squad which you have helped to create a country like a mushroom on our nice country and whose president has Moroccan parents. However, righteous people can give birth to ungrateful sons. He was ungrateful to the nation to whom he should have been loyal. Nevertheless, the end is coming soon. I ask you who pretend to be learned to go back to the history of countries to know that the borders of Morocco during the era of the Marinides and Almoravides were extended to the borders of Senegal river. Thus, Mauritania was also Moroccan. There are Moroccan territories which were also taken by Algeria. So close your mouth ignorant.
الهواري Posted 2008-07-10
The land of the fathers and grandfathers: we the Moroccan people don’t hurt or attack anyone. We don’t take the right of anyone. Our only concern is to preserve our unity, our sanctities and honour. Our Southern provinces and the Moroccan eastern Sahara are Moroccan territories historically and geographically. This is known by everyone. So there is no way for doubt and idle talk. The defence of our territory is a holy war and obligation for everyone and inevitable. How can a person forsake his land, the land of his fathers and forefathers? It defies belief. As regards philosophical talk and dreams of fanciful matters such as the Arabic Sahraoui Republic on the land of Amazigh people, this utterly unacceptable. Then I say to those who think of establishing the Arabic Sahraoui republic, they must first look for a territory and place outside the land Tamzgha. I mean that there is no place for them in North Africa except integration and cohabitation, then yes to that.
samir Posted 2008-07-10
I am sure about one thing. Moroccans will not forsake one inch whether through war, peace, destroying or putting fire in the region for everyone. All this is possible. But Moroccans won’t forsake their Sahara. This is impossible even in dreams. I can’t imagine this.
الفقير لرحمة الله Posted 2008-07-10
Oh Lord don’t impose on us what we can’t bear and relieve us from your anger and fury, oh Most merciful, Lord of all the creatures.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-12
To Ben: Mr van Walsum is part of the past! If you want to advance the discussion, then you need to forget about him. Hanging on to a character who sabotaged the negotiations shows your weakness. It would be better to offer arguments that are far more valid. I repeat: he is cooked. You said: “These belligerent tribes sold their souls to the Devil and the colonisers, their masters.” Well, I see two colonisers, Spain and Morocco, so which one are you talking about? Be more clear, please, because I did not understand. To Mr Bouskraoui: You made a horrid effort when writing you “Open Letter to the Polisario”, and the result is that there is no result. You are just confusing things, turning around in circles with your anarchic statements.
Ferry Posted 2008-07-12
The Moroccan sahara is a Sahara where people are oppressed in a brutal manner. Morocco will never be a democracy since it has to maintain their occupation with military force on the Saharawi people. A referendum for Saharawi's on the future of Western Sahara will be a liberation for Morocco too. Moreover will it also bring peace to the region. The obstacles for peace are France and the USA who support Morocco in it's position. This is what Mr. van Walsum has said. Salaam, and have a good day.
laayoune Posted 2008-07-13
We have come full circle. It is just a matter of time before the Polisario no longer exists. With the exceptions of critics and fabricators who tried to head this project, no one has ever believed in the so-called “freedom” of the people of the Sahara. Goodbye policemen!
Kabs Posted 2008-07-14
To Magharebia: I am sorry to repeat myself, but I cannot find my comment, “Banana Republic” anywhere. I looked at the majority of the articles about the Sahara. I find it frustrating to go to the effort and to take my time to create something using logical reasoning, something that is quality (or, in any case, I consider it quality), something that could create a debate, and to wait impatiently for responses so as to end up finally with nothing. It is this type of frustration that breaks our will and pushes people to give up. I do not want to making accusations and say that you are partisans of the Polisario or something rather, because I am sure that it is just your rules that are far too strict. I do not see anything bad in us being able to post a comment two or three times maximum when it goes unnoticed on the page it was published. That is just my opinion. Sincerely
BEN Posted 2008-07-14
Be serious, Slim 16! I was speaking about Tarfaya and the regions of the Sahara! Morocco was not the one that colonised them. In my opinion, Tarfaya and the rest are one and the same! If we persuade the audience to give us one back, then the rest should follow without a problem. Alas, just like your politics, yor appetites are pointed. You have fabricated these so-called “dissidents. This is a hold-up that is not doing honour to anybody. Re-read history and you will understand.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-16
It seem that our friend Kabs has misplaced his comment titled “Banana Republic”. To our friend Ben, from your perspective as given in your response, I think that those you were mean enough to call “so-called ‘dissidents’” are indeed true dissidents who are being cheated from their most natural of rights, such as the right to live in peace, to live in their homeland, to be free to make decisions for themselves, to not live in subjection and, above all else, to be considered as human beings to the utmost. And, to speak about a “hold-up” is going a bit too far for this argument. You are trying to trip us up!
Kabs Posted 2008-07-18
Slim 16: According to your comment, I note that you have forgotten that the Polisario only represents one part of the Sahrawis in Morocco. There are 350 thousand Sahrawis compared to 200 thousand Polisario members. This criterion must never be forgotten. Moreover, if the latter were to come to Morocco, they would live like Moroccans to the utmost. And, I remind you once more that 200 thousand people does not even add up to a small city the size of Taza, Morocco. It must not be forgotten that in 1975 there were only 75 thousand of them according to the Spanish census. In order to get up to 200 thousand, they raked in all of Mauritania’s, Mali’s and Algeria’s nomads.
Kabs Posted 2008-07-18
Mr Slim 16: With all due sportsmanship, I am curious to know the motives behind your unwavering support of the Polisario. The first question that comes to mind is: “Are you Algerian or a Polisario member?” It is still curious that a person would give such time and devotion to a cause that only concerns him only because it is in his neighbourhood and that the latter would create such concern in this person for his direct neighbour, Morocco. And, please spare me arguments of the following genres: the inexorable rights of the peoples, taking pity to save some soul, Angelic (meaning “Algerian”) charity, support for just causes and so on. We are now among intelligent people and the former Communist/Third-World discourse no longer has a place here. I believe the Berlin Wall had already collapsed and that Russia had already thrown in the towel. We know that this matter is a lot more complex than that: nothing is black and white. What is more, I think that Algeria is poorly positioned to give us any sort of lesson. Algeria is no more an example of stability than it is of progress or a proper distribution of wealth. You need to mind your own business before sticking your nose into that of your neighbours. I am not saying that Morocco is a paradise—far from it—but at least it is making it even without a single drop of oil as part of its natural resources. And, as far as stability goes, I do not think that anyone will deny that we are better off. Personally, I know the penetrating motivations of the Algerian government, but I am curious to know the penetrating motivations of Slim 16.
محمد Posted 2008-07-18
Oh generals of evil, treachery, occupation and exploitation, we the Moroccan people will make you accountable for every act small or large and for everything you did to us. Fifty years of occupation of the Eastern Sahara and our brothers in the East are still enduring your plots and violence. Our brothers in the south have been suffering for thirty years of attacks, kidnappings and violence. It's high time to pay for your acts, you tramps.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-22
To my friend, Kabs (If you will allow me this): “Slim 16” means “Slimane” and “16”, the number of the department of Algiers in fact. This is just to let you know that I am 100% Algerian. So there is my introduction, since you seem to be interested in my modest person! I am neither communist— I never have been— nor am I a Third-Worlder. My speech is meant to be engaging, and I am a champion of “principle”, which you call “vainglory”. I forge my speeches based on my deepest convictions, which are: No to Hogra! No to colonialism! No to the debasement of one person by another and, as a consequent, one people by another! Algeria is my country. My country! I love it to the point I would die for it. The policies of my country are my policies, high point and low points included, good government and bad government included. I criticise freely that which I do not like. I do not want to give any lessons to anybody, but I am free to express myself however I see fit. And, I have no lesson to take from anybody else! I think that I am honest: nobody else has responded to you so frankly. That said, I know Morocco well. I went on trips there from 15 to 20 days for several years and I have both girl and guy friends there. I do not like your country’s mode of governance. This matter with the king and servants disgusts me. I prefer our dictatorial generals. My country is stable—though you may think what you will—rich and is leading itself towards a honourable future with regards to its economy. I cannot follow your reasoning concerning the Western Sahara because my principles do not allow me to. It is as simple as that!!! I am glad I have cleared things up for you. From Algiers, Bye
gol Posted 2008-07-23
Our friend, Slim 16, wrote: “I am a champion of ‘principle’, which you call ‘nif’.” Come on, it is quite extraordinary that someone prides himself not saying anything of any meaning! How can you hold a conversation with such a tale-spinner? How can he reject hogra, colonialism and the domination of one person by another and, at the same time, endorse the adversarial politics of his dictatorial generals? You need to at least be coherent! The Algerian people were so victimised for so many years that one could use the expression from Pagnol about the woman with loose morals: “Only the train hasn’t been on top of her.”
Kabs Posted 2008-07-24
“The Green March” was a moment in history that most of you must not know of. Morocco has always been peaceful, despite its difficulties: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm68t_souvenirs-de-la-marche-verte_ads It must indeed be recognised that Hassan II, even if he was not always respectable, was all the same a political genius. Faced with Spanish machine guns, he had all his people, and entire nation of all political persuasions, march. And, it had to be done!
slim Posted 2008-07-24
To my friend, Kabs (if you will allow me): I will recount to you a fact that took place in a fishing village, Einterfet (near Dakhla), during the night of 21 July 2008: Moroccan citizens attacked Sahrawi fishermen. One Sahrawi citizen was thrown into the ocean, 40 Sahrawis were wounded, two Sahrawi citizens were arrested, and 15 shops and stores were burnt, as were 13 4x4 automobiles. The attack was planned out and led by individual manipulated by local authorities. A plaint was filed with the UN. Hogra was one of the reasons that led me to respond to you in order to explain my deepest motivations. You are free to believe this or not! My sources are credible. I will offer you these few thoughts: repression ultimately ends up making the conduct of despots go unquestioned, and, in confusing helpless submission with deliberate approval, the clans are commandeering a country and its resources— to the point of confusing it with their own personal revenue. And, there will always be a need for ever more repression, so as to protect oneself from ever more attempts at power. This is the only form of political existence that is permitted for subjugated peoples. I think I have cleared things up for you a bit more with regards to my psychological profile. All the best! From Algiers, Bye
Farid Posted 2008-07-24
In Response to Gol: Poor you: Slim 16 doesn’t know you yet. You still have hatred deep down inside, especially when it comes to Algerians and Algeria. The generals about whom you spoke are our strongholds and are under the command of the Republic. Bouteflika fired Major-General Lamari. Maybe you did not already know this, but the army is not longer involved in politics and is not our dictator. You should use this word when you are talking about a president who is a general; but, in Algeria this is not the case. Only our neighbours to the east who try to irritate us say words such as “dictator” and things like how your country is rich and the Algerians are poor and how we still have a communist regime and so on. Algerians who love their country are completely satisfied seeing their Algeria ranked the number-two economy (after Saudi Arabia) in the Arab World and the number-two economy (after South Africa) in Africa. Everything else is a bunch of nonsense. We know how our neighbours to the east do not like Algeria, and if they say they do, Algerians know why. We are not fooled. Brotherly and Maghrebi salutations.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-25
To Gol: You are a tale-spinner yourself! I would never call you “my friend”, because you are narrow-minded and, unlike Kabs, you do not try to understand, rather you just make denigrations right off the bat. Holding to one’s principles is certainly not meaningless. You yourself support your rulers’ disgusting policies across the board, especially the policies of Hogra towards an entire people. So, keep your “play-acting” lesson-giving to yourself. Know that I have no restraint when criticising our rulers over here. I think that you have a poor mindset— very very poor. You permit yourself to make disgusting comparisons with a country that is ranked far higher in the world’s hierarchy than your little corner, where there are more vices than anywhere else in the world. You are an open market for all the world’s perverted tourists. I have never attacked your country for these kinds of things. This is the first time, and the gesture’s you made in this sense forced me to. I have so much respect for the Moroccan people, because they are victims. But you, you are beyond my sympathy. As for the Algerian people, they are the bullet-train that will barrel over indecent and disrespectful people like you. 1.5 million martyrs are spitting in your face and, moreover, more than 35 million are living here just to flip you the largest finger in the world.
Kabs Posted 2008-07-26
Slim 16: You need to stop mixing everything up. There are attacks everyday in Morocco, Algeria and elsewhere. The clans and tribes fight amongst themselves, and, I repeat, this is in Morocco, Algeria and elsewhere. The only difference is that this goes unnoticed in the one case and, in the other case, the Polisario’s and Algeria’s neo-Stalinist propaganda makes a mountain out of a molehill. People cut off a farmer’s head in Algeria, but did Morocco get involved? No, I don't think so. And, if you love the Polisario so much and if they love you so much, just nationalise them into Algerians. That would be some real charity. But, in this case, there would be nothing left to annoy Morocco with, and that is not what Algeria is in to.
BEN Posted 2008-07-26
To Slim 16: Mr van Walsum is not in the past; he is still around, and he still has the confidence of the Secretary-General of the UN. You say that you are Algerian. You are thus very sentimental and very subjective when it comes to judging colonial facts, the reality of the problems of which, it seems to me, you have no idea about. Your disaffection for our King pushes you to walk right over the peaceful claims you make about an entire people (whom, moreover, you only know through a couple of sporadic vacations) such that you would dismiss out of hand the UN special envoy. Consequently, the best thing for the commenters is to simply ignore you, as it is visible that, as highlighted elsewhere, you are truly no good. The Algerians are worth more than this; these are your compatriots you have reproached! Sincerely
Kabs Posted 2008-07-26
My friend, Slim 16: Please, stop giving false information. You need research the accuracy of the information that you deliver us. But, this is not so big of a deal: I will clear things up for you. Morocco has invested billions of dirhams taken directly from our taxes in the southern provinces. Before, there was nothing but sand and wind, but now there are big cities in the Sahara, the people have drinking water at will (in Algeria, there are still outages), roads, electricity and so on. Moreover, the southern regions are subsidised with all the authorities’ might and, once again, with out taxes. There are even people in Morocco who demand that this be stopped because it is costing the country too much. All of this is just to tell you that there are no attempts at power but, rather, donations. Moreover, why should Morocco always have to justify itself? Has anyone asked you to better divide your oil wealth with the Touaregs? This matter is really starting to get on our nerves. These people took advantage Morocco’s times of trouble and turned their backs on their country, and now it is their problem. We leave them to you. All you have to do is welcome them and turn them into naturalised Algerians, being that you are the champions of charity and human justice.
slim16 Posted 2008-07-26
To Farid: I believe you are talking about the West, and I agree with you 100% so that Algeria will live freely and independently as it always has!
Ego Posted 2008-07-27
Simply put, congratulations, Mr Slim 16!
slim16 Posted 2008-07-28
Unfortunately for you, gentlemen, the problem has been internationalised and will be settled via international law. This is why, I think— and I have the complete right to think thus, whether certain people like it or not— all of your views are, the way I see it, misplaced. Personally, I am discussing a subject that speaks to my heart, and I will defend my point of view. For those who feel targeted or are bothered by my comments, all I have to say is that the Internet was made for exchanging ideas and for confronting one another’s ideas! So, do not annoy me by telling me, “You are no good”! Ben, the saying goes “No human being has the right to judge another.” So, are you yourself “good”? Look for your answer in your conscience!
slim16 Posted 2008-07-28
To my friend Kabs: Explain to me, please, why the wall was made in the first place? All the expenses that you cited were made in the goal of keeping Morocco’s colonies where they were in order to better convince them that the southern lands belong to them and not to “others”. Such theft would not be sustainable if living conditions were better. This, it is important to avoid such a spell. In Israel, the same policy is used by the state against the Jewish colonies, and, in the end, they are the one who pay the taxes that go to stealing away their future. Are thy conscious of this???
Kabs Posted 2008-07-29
My dear friend Slim, I am beginning to tire of my duty to justify what Morocco is doing all the time. But, since you are my friend, I will gladly respond. Morocco built the wall following the incessant Polisario guerrilla attacks. These terrorists find some remote place and massacre everything that moves there. They kidnap the people, taking them as prisoners and burning everything. In order to protect itself, Morocco built a wall and put radar all along it. I have come to realise through our discussions that you are very poorly informed on the subject. You make mistakes and do rough estimates frequently, or, at least, from time to your sight is very narrow and driven by one party alone. To have more broad scope to your vision, you need to get informed and collect some information sources. I am available for further information.
BEN Posted 2008-07-30
Dear Slim, Far be it for me to "puzzle" you; I am simply trying to open your eyes. In this regard, you remind me of a lawyer who has not managed to find any clients. You have found you victim in the Polisario, which is to say that you are sort of a champion of lost causes. You worsen your situation by comparing the Israeli colonies to those of the Moroccans, the latter of which is in their Sahara. These are twp different situations, as Israel was never colonised by two different colonial powers- France and Spain. And, our religion is Islam, the same one as in all of North Africa. Here we have a Commander of the Faithful, if you even know what that means. I can now verify: "you really are no good".
laayoune Posted 2008-07-30
A delegation from the victims of grave human-rights violations committed by Polisario separatists currently visiting London has appealed on the international community to urgently act to put an end to the suffering of the populations sequestered in the Tindouf camps of South-West Algeria. During a press meeting on Thursday evening, the members of the delegation, Mr Mostapha Bouh, a former leader of the Polisario, and Mohamed Lkabch and Miss Rbiaa Azeuni, both former detainees, and Miss Saadani Maaelainine, a victim who was deported to Cuba, described that the suffering they endured when they were detained in the Polisario's jails in the Tindouf camps on Algerian territory. They explained that their visit to London is part of the efforts they are making aimed at disclosing public opinion about the true face of the Polisario- a band of torturers who don't hesitate to resort to cruel methods so as to eliminate all voices in opposition to their separatist aims. The members of the delegation said that international public opinion, including that of Britain, needs to recognise the reality of what is going on in the camps of Tindouf and the tragic humanitarian situation in which thousands of Moroccan Sahrawis are living against their will at the hands of the Polisario junta. The Polisario, under the leadership of their Algerian mentors, is only trying to make this artificial conflict, made from scratch in the face of Morocco's territorial autonomy, they highlighted, explaining that the Polisario has no vision for a political solution. In this context, the members of the delegation have denounce the Polisario's tactics, which aim to exploit the suffering of the sequestered population in order to drain more international aid.
Hassan Posted 2008-07-30
I believe that this situation is unique in the Arab world. No Arab country besides Algeria would support and host terrorists who attack the neighbouring country. Maybe it is time that we come to the aid all the Algerian separatists, offering them air bases in Morocco.
echec dz Posted 2008-07-30
This is Algeria's desperate attempt at taking van Walsum out of the game. Now, the UN has confirmed that Peter van Walsum will remain as the UN mediator for the Sahara case and that his status has not changed. This response is the best proof both of the deadlock that Algeria and the Polisario find themselves in and of the point scored for Moroccan diplomacy.
nawel Posted 2008-07-30
In Algeria and in Tindouf, people are worried. They fear that this conflict will be made to last forever. Bouteflika and his generals need results as soon as possible. I am waiting to see what is next. We are going to have some fun here.
Nuance Posted 2008-07-30
The Polistuff and Algeria are trapped!!! by resolution 1813 which recognises and supports the personal representative of the UN Secretary-General, Mr Peter van Walsum. This representative's term was validated and confirmed by the UN Security Council. If the Polisario and Algeria want to go any further, then they are going to come into conflict with the Security Council and its Secretary-General. No country in the world will support them, and this demonstrates that the two entities, Algeria and the Polistuff, are just losing their time with the international community. Once again, Morocco is in its Sahara, and the Polisario itself is in Tindouf!
only me Posted 2008-07-31
I will try to explain the true source of the deadlock. Within a dictatorship, there is no alternation of power like there is in the West and thus there is no new team that deals with the problems from a different angle without feeling any discomfort. In Morocco, there is a completely new team as well as a new king who has decided on a new approach, being bold enough to offer that which would have been unthinkable under the reign of Hassan II. In Algeria, it is still the same team of dinosaur tapeworms who have been backed into their lies since 1962 and have no other choice but to perpetuate them. They say today to the international community that the Polisario made a mistake and expelling them from Algeria would translate into a loss in credibility that would stick with them. If there were a true alternation of power in Algeria-Boudiaf once vowed to revisit this issue-ÃÂÃÂthe Polisario would have ceased to exist a long time ago, because a new team would have cut off their air supply. It is as simple as that. Here is a recent example to convince you. During the Iraq war, Chiraq was openly opposed to the USA, and the consequence was disastrous for France. This ended up with relations deteriorating to the point where trade suffered. There were immediately elections in France and a new president came to power who visited Bush in Kennebunkport, Maine, stating clearly that France supports the USA and that France is the USA's friend. It is precisely through this mechanism, the alternation of power, that they could save face, honour the country and honour the president. On the other had, there is the example of TéÂbehdil Bicot: 15 years ago, without provocation, Saddam Hussein started a murderous war against his Muslim brother and neighbour, Iran, causing one million deaths.
only me Posted 2008-07-31
In 1990, when the US navy approached his homestead, Saddam Hussein, having just pissed his pants, made this desperate appeal to the Iranians: "OÂ, my brothers of love! I am offering you my hand and requesting your forgiveness."Â During Hassan II's funeral, while the dignitaries stood by in dignity, Clinton watched Bouteflika in shock as the latter, who had made war with Hassan II for 40 years, was sobbing over his coffin and, in a loud voice, saying, "O, my brother in arms! My brother of love!" Blah blah blah [the speech went on for two hours] "Where have you gone?" I swear to you that if Algeria were struck full on by catastrophe and one day crushed by a foreign power, this same tapeworms would make a desperate appeal to Morocco, saying "O our brothers in love! We are offering our hands and requesting your forgiveness. The Polisario? That was nothing, nothing but a spat with you, because our faces [Nif] have been cleansed with mud. (Please respond with your sources.)
محمد Posted 2008-08-01
To the generals of Algeria who have curved noses and bad breath. Oh generals of evil, treason, occupation and exploitation, we the Moroccan people will make you accountable for everything you did of us. Fifty years of occupation of the Eastern Sahara. Our brothers in the East are suffering from your plots and torture. Our brothers in the South have been subject to attacks, kidnappings and violence for thirty years subject. It is high time to make you accountable ragamuffins.
Kabs Posted 2008-08-02
According to an Indonesian newspaper, a Moroccan official alluded to the August 2005 peace accords between the government of Jakarta and the Free Aceh Movement (GAM), which put an end to almost 30 years of hostilities. For Mr Hilale, the former Moroccan ambassador to Jakarta during the 1990s, the matter with the Sahara and that of Aceh “have many similarities.” “In both cases, there were armed separatist movements. Indonesia knew how to convince GAM that it would be better to choose a broad autonomy”, affirmed the Moroccan official, underlining that, presently, the leader of GAM has become the governor of the region at the centre of the conflict. Is this the basis for an appeal to Mohamed Abdelaziz, who could one day lead the government of an autonomous Sahara?
slim16 Posted 2008-08-03
This discussion is becoming profane....
غالي أبو العباس Posted 2008-08-03
In spite of the all the explanations presented by Slim 16, the Moroccan brothers are still ruminating the words of the Moroccan news agencies which speak in the name of the royal palace. The important thing is that the Polisario is the only and legitimate representative of the Sahraoui people. It is recognized by the United Nations as the second party and counterpart of the Moroccan state to find a solution the conflict of the Western Sahara. This conflict which emanates from the detestable occupation of Morocco to the territory of the Arab Democratic Sahraoui Republic. It is a full and founding member of the African Union. Secondly, I want to ask the wise among the Moroccan people, because there is no hope for the mad. I have just two questions. The first question: is there a single state in the world or international organization which recognizes the sovereignty of Morocco over the Western Sahara? Since the answer is no, is the whole world wrong and Morocco the only right side? The second question: has anyone of you seeing a map of Morocco including the territories of the Western Sahara before 1945? I defy any Moroccan to present the name of a single book or reference showing such a map. If you don’t why I have said 1945 in particular I will tell you. Finally, Morocco has divided the Western Sahara with Mauritania by agreement issued in April 1976 and published on the Moroccan official bulletin. Have you heard about a country cutting off a third of its territory and giving it to another country? After that it sings “they were unfair to him”, Morocco from Tangier to Lagouira. In reply to the question of those who want to know the meaning of the Polisario, it is a French abbreviation of the expression Popular Front for the Liberation of Sakia Al Hamra and Oued Eddahab by taking the first letters of every word. In response to the Moroccan who inquired if there was a Western Sahara before 1884 and whether it was independent of the Moroccan government: The reply is clear in the consultative opinion of the International Court of Justice in The Hague issued on October 16, 1975. It is published on the site of the court. It has shown that there is no Moroccan sovereignty over the Western Sahara throughout history. It says literally ‘the court hasn’t found in the documents presented to it any links of a sovereign nature linking the territory of Western Sahara and the Kingdom of Morocco’. Therefore, the court doesn’t see any reason preventing the implementation of the decision of the United Nations granting the Sahraoui people their right to self-determination.
BEN Posted 2008-08-04
You only find it crude when the dialogue does not conform to you demagogic rambling, my dear Slim 16! And, you dare talk about going to too much of a bother!
ولد اشهيبي Posted 2008-08-08
To Abou Al Abbas. Why do you knowingly distort facts? I don’t describe you as hypocrite but I tell you may God guide you. If Mauritania was part of Morocco and half the area of Algeria part of Morocco, why should the Western Sahara not be part of Morocco? Was there a Polisario republic and you were its president? Stop disillusioning and void words. The Algerian petrodollar has played a role in integration the fictive republic in the Organization of African Unity by Adam Koudjou. As regards the African Union which is currently established, it will never recognize it. Anyway, the native people of the Moroccan Sahara will not accept separation from the motherland. God, the nation and the king from Tangier to Lagouira passing by Tidilka.
slim16 Posted 2008-08-14
I said that with regards to a certain “ONLY ME”, because his ramblings are not at all to my liking!
المغربي Posted 2008-08-16
The Sahara is Moroccan, today it is Moroccan ad it will remain Moroccan. Neither Algeria which wants to obstruct development process in Morocco nor ever the Polisario which I describe as a terrorist organization, no history or logic recognizes its existence, will take the Sahara because it belongs to us.
Moulay Rashid Posted 2008-08-18
It's clear Morocco is speaking with a voice of reason and above all wisdom which is reflected in the country's long and illustrious history. Contrast this with the polisario who cannot even run a refugee camp in the algerian desert without violating human rights which they implausibly claim to support! The very foundations of the polisario are slowly crumbling as the number of defectors back to Morocco increases each year, leaving behind a group of hard headed power hungry corrupt people who claim to represent saharoui people yet brainwash their own people in foreign communist and Marxist ideology. The absurdity of this group is beyond a joke.
adel Posted 2008-09-09
O’ my dear Moroccan brothers! You are all fighting against Algeria! You talk about Bechar and Tindouf, but you forget about Ceuta and Mellila. You talk about Algeria’s generals, but your forget that you have a despotic and tyrannical regime.
ABDEL Posted 2008-09-10
We have nothing against the real Algerians. On the contrary, we like you and we are brothers. If not, our parents and grandparents would not have helped you in your war for independence. And, most Algerians were living in Morocco at that time. What we don’t like, however, is your military, which invented this story of the Polisario and are screwing the Maghreb over. Just ask your history professor if the Sahara was not Moroccan prior to colonisation.
ALGERO-MAROCAIN Posted 2008-09-10
To Ghali Abou Abbes: I challenge you. I have an old geographic map showing the Moroccan Sahara being occupied by Spain. You can believe me, although you are free to not to do so. What is more, do not ask the Algerian generals about this, because they are stubborn ignoramuses. If they were not, then they would not have massacred 200,000 Algerians just out of their own personal interests and pardoned themselves for fear of being judged by the Algerians.
gol Posted 2008-09-12
Are there dunces in this forum? Ghali Abou Abbes launches a stupid challenge to find out if a pre-1945 map of Morocco including the Western Sahara could be found. Before 1945, even Northern Morocco was not even part of Morocco. Neither was Sidi Ifni. So, are these territories also not Moroccan for this reason? Colonialism is gone, and in its wake it left artificial borders drawn with a ruler.
racgid chao9i Posted 2008-10-26
Hi my friends, I will only tell you that, in my opinion, the Sahara will always belong to Morocco until death.
amed Posted 2009-01-31
Be realistic, ladies and gentlemen! If everyone of us wanted our independence, there would be millions of countries in this world, with a country for the Taliban, a country for Darfour, a country for the Basques and so on. This is impossible. The Sahara is Moroccan. Moreover, I do not understand how terrorist guerrillas can be independent!? This is totally impossible and unacceptable.
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